Rutinel argues that activists can have greater “counterfactual impact” by bringing animal-rights values into law firms, government agencies, corporations, and other influential institutions.

“What we want is for any animal lawyer working for an organization in these limited spots to be the best animal lawyer that the movement can possibly have.”

Transcription:

Because I think the value add portion of this is extremely important. I think all of us in this room probably care about animals. Is that right? Can we get a raise of hands if you care about animals? OK, I see some hands that aren't raised over there. I'm going to talk to you later. We all care about animals, and I think there's this desire for all of us to work in the movement. There's this like. Dislike. This would be aligned with my identity with my values. I want to work in the movement. And I think that that is wonderful, but I think it may be not capturing the whole point.

What we want is for any animal lawyer working for an organization in these limited spots to be the best animal lawyer that the movement can possibly have. And if you're applying for a job, do your best, try to get that position and trust that the HR process is going to hire the best person. So I'm not, I'm not dissuading you from applying from these positions. But what I will say is that there's a huge opportunity outside of the animal law movement to contribute to the animal world. And in fact, you may have a bigger impact, you may have a much bigger impact outside of the animal movement. And the reason for that is because for you to have what I would call counterfactual impact. In other words, an impact that only exists because you exist for you to have that impact, a counterfactual impact. You would have to be, if you work in the animal space, better than the next best person.

Whereas if you're working outside of the animal space, you just have to have your values in that position for you to have a much higher counterfactual impact because if it weren't for you and your values, the person filling that role wouldn't have your values. So what does that mean? That means, let's say you're working for a big law firm. Now, a lot of big law firm people, they do pro bono work. Now, what kind of pro bono work do you do? Well, often that may be up to you. And so. You get to decide, OK? I'm gonna dedicate my time for my pro bono work to the animal world. Let's say you work for an agency like the EPA. Well, we all know the environmental destruction that animal agriculture has imposed on the planet, but not everyone does. And so just the fact that you have those values in that insight and that knowledge in that role, whatever that role may be in the EPA, allows you to contribute.